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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2012.11.15 15:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think CCP intended the changes to the bounty system to be used as "pay back" for people that do bad things in game. Mess with me, I'll put a bounty on you.
I highly suspect, it will end up as the exact opposite.
Two flaws:
1) lot of the high sec ganking is done on throw away toons. It takes very little training to get into a DPS destroyer... The bounties will do little if placed on a throw away toon.
2) Just as war dec's are used by PVP corps to blackmail industrial corps, I suspect the new bounty system is going to be used much the same.
Because of the 20% payout, you have to lose 5x as much in ships as the bounty that is put on you. So, I see PVP corps blackmailing industrial corps like this: "Pay me 100 million a week, or I'll put 100 million a week bounty on you. It is cheaper to pay me the 100 million ISK than to lose 500 million ISK in ships to bounty hunters."
The response, of course, from the industrialists will be to simply create a new corp (if it is corp bounties they are getting hit with) or let their accounts unsub for the length of time that it takes for the bounties to go away. This mass "unsub", of course, CCP is not going to ignore.
In short, players are not going to use the system as intended. It is going to cause much grief amongst the carebear community that constitutes a HUGE chunk of CCPs paid accounts (revenue). Therefore, big changes will be made to the new bounty system fairly quickly after implementation. Then, the people that misused the bounty system to grief carebears will be all whiny about how we're nerfing the game again.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 15:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
I fail to see where the problem lies with this.
Then read the OP again as I clearly lay it out.
Hint: CCP REVENUE!
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 16:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
I realize that having a bounty does not grant kill rights.
Having a bounty on you makes suicide ganking you profitable. Therefore, people will use the threat of putting a bounty on you as a means of blackmail. That blackmail will be followed through with actual bounties, and increased suicide ganking. Actual bounties and suicide ganks will make carebears unsub., Unsub will cause CCP to make changes.
The argument that carebears didn't drop during hulkageddon ignores mass unsub that caused CCP to make changes to other mining barges.
I've seen what a war dec does to participation in carebear corps. People just do not bother logging in for a week or two. But, usually the war dec goes away before the corp totally disbands. Bounties that do not go away after a week or two.... Death to carebear corps, carebear toons, subscription rates.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 16:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Valerie Tessel wrote:The bounty system won't give a profit motive to the gankers as it will still be unprofitable to kill in hisec without a kill right.
Wrong.
A fleet of DPS destroyers, after insurance payouts, is super cheap. The bounty doesn't have to be especially large to make it profitable to gank that hulk/mack/orca/freighter.
The lack of profit is on the side of the person placing the bounty.... unless placing bounties is (and it will be) used as a blackmail tool against carebears.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 16:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
People wont quit over being blackmailed via bounties, and if they do EVE is better off without them, which will then in turn attract more players.
Check m8.
CCP is not going to agree with your point that EVE is better without them. I do not agree that the bounty system changes will attract more subs than it drives away.
As soon as the bounty system starts driving away more players than it attracts, and I predict it will, it will be changed.
I think the two critical questions are:
1) for how long will I have to unsub to get the bounty to go away?
2) will we be able to see who placed the bounty on us/our corp?
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 17:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Silk daShocka wrote:
As far as the claim to "blackmail". It isn't blackmail you are referring to, it is extortion.
You are going to argue with me over which synonym I chose to use?
I looked up blackmail in:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blackmail
Here is what I found:
extortion or coercion by threats
The origin:
"a tribute anciently exacted on the Scottish border by plundering chiefs in exchange for immunity from pillage "
Yes, blackmail is commonly used in regards to paying someone to not make your secrets known. However, that is neither the original, not the only meaning of the word.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 17:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:
1) 5 months
2) yes, you'll get a notification if someone placed a bounty on you, who did it and how much. if you're a director in a corp/alliance you'll also get that notification if it's placed on corp/alliance
so if you want to place it anonymously you'll have to use an alt or do it through a 3rd party
It is going to suck letting accounts unsub a whole 5 months to clear off the bounty.
Lots of alt accounts will be used to place bounties I guess.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 17:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Some Rando wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:In short, players are not going to use the system as intended. How do you know that putting bounties on terrible carebear shitposters isn't what the system was intended for, Dinsdale?
The release is called "Retribution" (synonym: pay back, reprisal, revenge) not "new way to extort carebears". |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 17:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:
maybe you can just see how it goes. hisec will still be safe and if people gank you you'll gain kill right on said ganker which you can then make available to other people for ISK, so you could make money on that as well.
specially if the ganker is a terrible person, a lot of people want killed
Oh, I'm not saying that I'm going to drop on the day the new bounty system goes live.
I'm just saying that I strongly suspect that the new bounty system will be used as an extortion system against carebears, and that will cause a lot of carebears to unsub.
Just look at all the people that are salivating at the idea of the new system Is it the carebears chomping at the bit, looking for a way to "get back" at the gankers and bumpers? Or is it the people that are eager to see more PVP in high sec to burn the carebears?
Personally, I don't see any posts from carebears that can't wait to start throwing bounties on griefers. I see the people eager to see more high sec tears.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 17:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Silk daShocka wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Silk daShocka wrote:
As far as the claim to "blackmail". It isn't blackmail you are referring to, it is extortion.
You are going to argue with me over which synonym I chose to use? I looked up blackmail in: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/blackmailHere is what I found: extortion or coercion by threats The origin: "a tribute anciently exacted on the Scottish border by plundering chiefs in exchange for immunity from pillage " Yes, blackmail is commonly used in regards to paying someone to not make your secrets known. However, that is neither the original, not the only meaning of the word. I like how you edited the definition to suit your needs. Definition of BLACKMAIL extortion or coercion by threats especially of public exposure or criminal prosecutionfrom the same link you provided
Especially != limited to.
I selected the main portion of the definition that was on point, and simply removed the prepositional phrase that was not on point.
It is not like the definition is "extortion involving threat to release secreats"... and I chopped off the "to release secreats". |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
20
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 17:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:I'm just saying that I strongly suspect that the new bounty system will be used as an extortion system against carebears, and that will cause a lot of carebears to unsub. That's what makes it good. This is the kind of content that makes EvE different from the other games I don't want to play. I can tell you to go play another game if you don't like it, but you can't say the same to me because there are no other games. The difficult thing about your post is that you're directly speaking to a member of CCP development staff, looking for an answer they cannot give. That's because it would be unwise for a CCP developer to speak frankly and tell you 'we don't care'. I can't say if that is how CCP really feels about the subject, but I hope it is.
The point of the OP was not to "speak directly to a Dev" looking for an answer.
The point of the OP was to point out what I see coming for the new bounty system. It is not going to be used by carebears to put bounties on griefers. It is going to be used by griefers to extort carebears. That is going to result in carebears, a major source of revenue for CCP, un-subbing. That is going to result in changes being made to the system, then massive whines from the griefers when CCP is forced to alter the system.
Now, I could be wrong. Maybe griefers won't use the system to grief carebears, and it will be used by carebears to discourage griefing.... but judging from the total absence of posts from carebears chomping at the bit for the opportunity to put bounties on griefers, and the large number of posts from people hoping this will cause high sec to burn, I HIGHLY doubt I am wrong.
I could also be wrong that the new bounty system will cause more people to unsub than sub. However, the game as it exists now offers AMPLE opportunity to PVP if that is what you are interested in. Therefore, I do not see the new bounty system pulling in more players that are looking to PVP. Rather, I see it bringing grief to carebears, and those carebears dropping, in larger numbers than we see new subs of people looking for new ways to grief carebears.
I will wait and see what happens. I'm just pointing out what I suspect will happen.
Again, to summarize:
Griefers will put bounties on carebears and then extort them to pay up or be hit with larger bounties. Bounty hunters will come and kill carebears to collect bounties. Carebears will get tired of the griefing and unsub. CCP will make changes to the bounty system to halt the carebear unsubs. Griefers will whine when the bounty system is changed to make it harder for them to grief carebears.
I could be wrong about the future of the new bounty system.... but I doubt it. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 18:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote: That's because it would be unwise for a CCP developer to speak frankly and tell you 'we don't care'. I can't say if that is how CCP really feels about the subject, but I hope it is.
Bringing us back to the point that every thread degrades into.
CCP is a company that exists to maximize profits, and that means making a game that appeals to the widest range of people possible, by offering something for every one.
EVE has areas with few to no rules, allowing ample opportunity for those interested in PVP to PVP.
EVE also has areas with lots of rules that provides a place for those that are not interested in PVP to mostly avoid PVP.
Why can CCP not create a game with different areas, that appeal to various people with varying play style? Oh, they can... it is called EVE.
What I see is PVPers that see all the "potential targets" in high sec that think "Oh, if we can just push those carebears out to where I can kill them more easily, this game would be better." The reality is, that those players are only there because it is relatively safe... not absolutely safe, but relatively safe. Make it less safe, and they just quit playing.
How does it help the PVPers if all the carebears unsub?
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 18:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:It's almost as if you care about CCP's revenue and this isn't really a whine thread about the cost of having to replace your precious Hulks.
I'm not going to be replacing hulks. If the new bounty system results in people coming to blow up my hulks, I unsub.
That is the underlying point that PVPers miss. Since you can't force me to play the game, you can't force me to be an easy target for griefing. Game mechanics that make it ways to grief me, will result in me quitting the game.
PVPers propose all these changes that they think will get them more kill mails. In reality, those changes will just result in fewer people doing those activities that make them easy kill.
I find it INCREDIBLY unlikely that CCP does not care about the revenue they receive from the carebears.
And even if they do not, how does it make the game more fun for you, if all the carebears quit playing? Sure, IF we all move out of high sec and do things that make it easier for you to kill us, the game would be more fun for you... but that is never going to happen. So, the question is limited to, how is the game more fun for you if I am not playing?
P.S. LOL..... at your comment about fewer carebears = more subs. Carebears buy PLEX. Remove the carebears, prices go up, PVPers buy more PLEX to pay for ships..... And who is buying these PLEX from the PVPers for ISK when the carebears, that buy the PLEX, are gone from the game?
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 18:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aryth wrote:There is also a 3rd flaw, which I am sure we are going to be happy to illustrate post patch.
Let's see....
Someone puts a bounty on you.... You get into a ship with an insurance payout that matches the cost of the ship. You have your alt kill you. You collect the insurance and the bounty. As long as neither you nor your alt post kill mails, no one knows your alt killed you for the bounty....
The bigger the bounty on you, the bigger the reward for having your alt kill you for the bounty.
Or... is the bounty payout being 1/5th the loss going to be the amount ABOVE insurance payout? |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 18:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Pretty sure you don't get an insurance payout when you're paying off a bounty.
I didn't see THAT change in the dev blog.
Right now, people with bounties on them still get insurance payout when they lose a ship. I do not see why they would not post change. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 19:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kara Vix wrote:The current system has been bad since day one. The new system looks terrific, can someone find a way to grief with it-probably, but if that happens the same system can be used to grief him back. I look forward to this going live.
Yes, the current bounty system is horrid. I disagree that the new system looks terrific.
I think the new system is open to all sorts of unintended uses and exploits, not the least of which will be its use to extort carebears. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 19:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
I strongly reccomend you have an alt blow up whichever character has the bounty on them. Keep at it until you earn at least twice as much ISK as you are losing.
This sounds as if you are trying to be sarcastic, but I miss the point.
Let's say someone puts a 100 million iSK bounty on me.
Let's say there is a cruiser that the hull costs 10 million, and insurance buy is 2 million payout is 12 million.
I buy the hull and insure it. My cost is 12 million.
I undock in unfit hull. My alt drops a can. I steal from it. My alt blows up the ship I was in.
Insurance pays me 12 million and I collect 2 million of the bounty. Profti = 2 million.
I then salvage the wreck with the alt while I dock up and reship.... repeat until the bounty is low enough that it is no longer worth it to continue blowing myself.
Which brings me back to the question.... will the "loss" basis that is used to determine payout only be the amount of loss that is above insurance payout?
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 20:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:
1) 5 months
2) yes, you'll get a notification if someone placed a bounty on you, who did it and how much. if you're a director in a corp/alliance you'll also get that notification if it's placed on corp/alliance
so if you want to place it anonymously you'll have to use an alt or do it through a 3rd party
It is going to suck letting accounts unsub a whole 5 months to clear off the bounty. Lots of alt accounts will be used to place bounties I guess. maybe you can just see how it goes. hisec will still be safe and if people gank you you'll gain kill right on said ganker which you can then make available to other people for ISK, so you could make money on that as well. specially if the ganker is a terrible person, a lot of people want killed
One need simply read the responses in this thread to "see how it will go".
Number of carebears posting about how they look forward to the changes so they can put bounties on griefers: 0
Number of griefers posting how they are drooling at the opportunity to use the new system to increase carebear tears: 23
(intended to be hyperbole... I did not actually count.)
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.11.15 20:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Is there any cargo that always drops? I think maybe PLEX always drop into the wreck... yes? No?
If there are, will those items be calculated into the "loss" price? |
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